Smiley Smile
I've just come from Val's blog, (http://vereeniging.blogspot.com/) where she mentioned that one of her comments on another blog was misinterpreted as a negative comment; she wonders if she had used a "smiley" symbol to flag the fact that she was joking, the misunderstanding could have been avoided. I'm sure she's right.
I think this is rather sad. Val is absolutely right in saying that there's an inherent difficulty in that readers have no visual cues or tone of voice to interpret, but I suspect there's even more to it than that.
Blogs are great fun and give a voice to those who might otherwise not bother to write at all, but if you don't actually KNOW the person writing, or share their sense of humour or history, misunderstandings can occur.
I believe for instance that socially and culturally, some people have a better sense of irony than others, and that this affects their sense of humour and interpretation generally. This cultural difference can be geographically based or in microcosmic form between families and friends (for example, we all have our "in-jokes", which often seem very odd to others). Does that mean we should stop using them or seek to homogenise our sense of humour for fear of causing unwitting offense?
The beauty of blog commenting, if not posting, is that it's quick and off the cuff. I'd hate to have to start agonising about whether my comments might be misinterpreted by someone who just happened to stumble across them, but c'est la vie. The nature of the beast. I'm not about to start using smilies instead of language to deflect any potential criticism.
Maybe I'm in a minority here (or just in the wrong demographic), but I've always thought smilies and emoticons or whatever they're called are a tad twee. Actually, on the question of demographics, my seventeen year-old thinks they're a bit naff too, although her 15 and 13-year old sisters use them constantly.
Am I sounding like an unseasonal Scrooge? In a world where it has been ruled legitimate for a senior student to write an essay in phone text form (Mcbth ws a rotn wknd hst"?), perhaps I'm a literary Luddite, but I love language and hate to see it cheapened. I'm prepared to risk the odd fit of pique for bloggy freedom of speech without the decorations.
Later ...
OK, I've read through this now and I do sound like a bitter and twisted old dinosaur. I will point out in mitigation though that I'm also one of those people who have a liberal attitude to kids reading comics; perhaps we shouldn't care what they read, as long as they do read enough to form the habit. I'll work on stretching that concept to allow that I will now no longer care whether people write in truncated txt form, or using smilies, virtual hugs or winky bits, as long as they write.
Is that better?
I think this is rather sad. Val is absolutely right in saying that there's an inherent difficulty in that readers have no visual cues or tone of voice to interpret, but I suspect there's even more to it than that.
Blogs are great fun and give a voice to those who might otherwise not bother to write at all, but if you don't actually KNOW the person writing, or share their sense of humour or history, misunderstandings can occur.
I believe for instance that socially and culturally, some people have a better sense of irony than others, and that this affects their sense of humour and interpretation generally. This cultural difference can be geographically based or in microcosmic form between families and friends (for example, we all have our "in-jokes", which often seem very odd to others). Does that mean we should stop using them or seek to homogenise our sense of humour for fear of causing unwitting offense?
The beauty of blog commenting, if not posting, is that it's quick and off the cuff. I'd hate to have to start agonising about whether my comments might be misinterpreted by someone who just happened to stumble across them, but c'est la vie. The nature of the beast. I'm not about to start using smilies instead of language to deflect any potential criticism.
Maybe I'm in a minority here (or just in the wrong demographic), but I've always thought smilies and emoticons or whatever they're called are a tad twee. Actually, on the question of demographics, my seventeen year-old thinks they're a bit naff too, although her 15 and 13-year old sisters use them constantly.
Am I sounding like an unseasonal Scrooge? In a world where it has been ruled legitimate for a senior student to write an essay in phone text form (Mcbth ws a rotn wknd hst"?), perhaps I'm a literary Luddite, but I love language and hate to see it cheapened. I'm prepared to risk the odd fit of pique for bloggy freedom of speech without the decorations.
Later ...
OK, I've read through this now and I do sound like a bitter and twisted old dinosaur. I will point out in mitigation though that I'm also one of those people who have a liberal attitude to kids reading comics; perhaps we shouldn't care what they read, as long as they do read enough to form the habit. I'll work on stretching that concept to allow that I will now no longer care whether people write in truncated txt form, or using smilies, virtual hugs or winky bits, as long as they write.
Is that better?
posted by MargieCM at 11:49 am
27 Comments:
Margie:
Just came by to say thanks for the shout out on Rachels'g blog, I suppose I should not complain about missing one show as The Who are near me often. It must be tough for wonderful people like you and NeanS cannot see them as often and when they do come around I am sure it is very special. NY is a Who-friendly area and I am grateful.
On this topic on yer blog I wholeheartedly agree and I have had people drop me as internet friends on misunderstandings as to tone and meaning either on the blog or on emails. The culture differences have a lot to do with it and the sarcasm that I often use in tone of voice and facial expression is completely LOST in a computer, so, conclusion: Some people need to grow a sense of humor and assume that one is joking about, yeah?
You seem a cool girl and I am proud to know ya.
-Lin B.
Oh Margie.....everything you write is absolutely precious! I love it, and please don't change a thing...or accept truncated anythings in life (and I use the plural form deliberately here)
;-) ;-) ;-)
Back later - it's awfully early here so I'm going to catch another few winks xx
Hi Margie
Twee and Naff - I love it!
Not only do demographics play a part, so does the language!
I use the smiley emoticon - or whatever they're called - in a situation where I think the reader might misinterpret what I've said or simply because that's how I'm feeling.
Only sometimes - but not always...
We can express ourselves in writing, but some better than others and time is definitely a factor.
We can also learn to laugh at ourselves!
You and Val both have valid points.
...and I simply cannot imagine writing a major essay in nothing but consonants!
Bugger! (Now find me an emoticon for that!) I hate new Blogger - it just completely dematerialised my post, which , of course, was concise, to the point, and linguistically brilliant. Haha! - you will never know if I am lying. (But you will rightly suspect ...)
Anyway, I HAD said thankyou to Lin for dropping by, and that yes, it was tough being a Who fan in Australia, as it was a long time between 1967 (which even I was too young for) and 2004, when I finally saw them live. Was never in Europe at the same time they were touring, either. And then I thanked Lin again for her very kind comments! Only of course I did it much more elegantly than that.
Then I went on to say how sorry I was for you Val, in that a woman without a malicious bone in her body should be accused of writing something unkind. And that you can write anything and everything your little heart desires in prose, poetry or hieroglyphics on here anytime. xxx Of course I phrased that more prettily too.
Then Dale - I remember I waffled something about "twee" being such a great word, because you could really visualise the screwed-up face you get when someone's put too much sugar in your coffee. And that I absolutely see your point; that there is a place for both language and all its truncated forms in today's world. Then I believe I said something pithy like "hey - perhaps today's shorthand is tomorrow's Booker prizewinner". More wittily, though, naturally.
Finally I swore loudly (using a very INelegant Old English form, I believe) when Blogger ate the lot.
It's such a shame none of it ever made it onto the page ...
I laughed uproarously (is that spelling right? It doesn't look good..hmm) when I read your comment, Margie. Your post is perfect, and I so agree with you in so many ways. No you aren't being a luddite (how long is it since I've heard that now..lol), and you have such a good point about the differences in cultures leading to different interpretations.
It comes back to one of the points we've made in the past about learning to cope with different manners and values too, and this is even riskier when we don't have face to fact contact. On the whole, though, I think we all do incredibly well in blogland given the size of the craters it is possible to put not just one, but both feet into!
Thank you so much for being you and such a source of cheer to me, Margie. You have a wonderful way with words, and it's as if I hear you speaking. Your comment alone was worth a post, and you've left me with a great big ;-)
PS, I'll also love twee and naff. I tend to forget a whole book load of great and colourful English expressions now I'm living without much verbal input from my own people.
Maybe 'bugger' is this one ;-$!
lv u ;)
Margie, well I have seen you at Rachel's blog, and I don't have much time to spend on the computer so today I thought I would venture out and here I am - I dont know about all the little symbols either. I have received them, and I don't know exactly what they mean other than, I think good!! I have just scaled my blog down, because I had some negative comments on my e-mail, but this in a very open forum here, so I don't take anything personally, although I have had nothing but wonderful communication from those blogging with me, of course only from Rachel and Pete's blog. So if you come by, if you have time check some of my previous posts, not that many, I have put them aside.
Val, you are so generous with your thoughts and words. i think the English do have it with language - but then I am a bit of an Anglophile. Some day I'll run a few Australian specials past you though. We do have our moments!
Dale - I was at work doing a bit of naughty multi-tasking when I read your little comment, and the client I was speaking to over the phone at the time thought I was choking! I pointed out I would never be so unprofessional as to eat or drink while on the phone to a valued customer, but that this bird in Canada had just made me laugh like a drain. Well, I would have if I'd been braver. As it was, I pretended I'd had a coughing fit instead. Much nicer.
Grace, how cool to hear from you! I'm a bit of a quiet one (I don't get out much, she says pathetically), as like you, I find time a real challenge, so I tend to stick with my few precious blog buddies most of the time. I will certainly check your blog out though. I'm amazed I looked interesting enough for you to push a button for! Thanks, and I will be in touch.
***
Oooh! Another lovely word verification; this one is "oodtgate". Come on Vally -that has to be Dutch, doesn't it? Pleeese tell me what it means or I'll make up something dreadful of my own!
great post Margie!
I often have to curb my sense of humour on the internet. Even off line my sense of humour has been misunderstood. On certain chat boards I frequent I am guilty of using emoticons(mainly winks) or say in brackets (just kidding) to make sure my usually dry and ironic sense of humour is not taken the wrong way.
I have also been guilty of using LOL, etc when making a joke online. Mainly out of lazines and sometimes things people say really do make me Laugh Out Loud!
I remember when I first started using the phrase Keep It Moist to sign off posts. Boy did I get some strange reactions from that. Its one of those phrases that could be meant as something rude but its actual meaning is quite harmless. I think they call it a double entendre-hope I spelt that right!
This is a bloody brilliant writing, bitter or not. I powerfully agree with you. I use the emoticons on occasion but that's not the point here. One should NEVER censor one's words for the fear of somebody not understanding them and becoming offended - or for the fear of being misunderstood even if nobody gets offended. Sense of humour is indeed a brilliant example of cultural differences. For example irony seems to be much more commonly used in Europe and Australia than in the US.
About karonkka. If you want to arrange a really festive and formal thing for Colin, here's how it approximately goes:
1) Decide who you invite and where the event will be held, and what kind of a dress code it will involve.
2) Send invitations which announce place, date and time, dress code, requirement for response by such-and-such time, also ask the invitees to tell if they have any special dietary requirements.
3) Decide the menu and the drinks with the restaurant, remembering to make sure that there are non-alcoholic beverages available if any guests prefer them. Myself I have sparkling for the toast, white for starters, red for main course, and with the dessert cognac or liquor to go with coffee.
4) Seating order: the Finnish karonkka is an academic celebration, so the etiquette is precise. The academic people are arranged in the order of "ranking". For other guests it's a mixture of the common etiquette for such festive occasions and considerations of comfort (so that the guests enjoy themselves). In your case it of course depends on how festive and formal you want to make it, but if there are lots of people invited, it might be nice to arrange the seating specially!
5) The event itself isn't very complicated, unless you want to arrange special programming: when the guests have arrived, there's a toast in honour of the opponent; then to tables; starters and main course; speeches; dessert.
That's about it :-)
Margie! I've just seen your last comment on my 'paradox' post, and positively hooted about the chicken scrubbing obsession bit. Precious! But anyway, I think it is very true that, quality aside, artists, writers, musicians etc just have to do what they do. The compulsion is stronger than themselves....and me!
As for your 'oodtgate', I have it on very unreliable authority that this means an 'old hole', and that it is a noun that is feminine in gender....well, you did ask! ;-)
Neans - I always love your posts. I also love the fact that I won't die wondering what you mean! You always seem so honest and candid. As for the sense of humour, I guess that means that if you're warped then so am I. I remember your explanation of "keep it moist", and I love it. Beats "see ya!" into a cocked hat.
Maria, thankyou so much, both for your generous words and the karonkka details. I actually mentioned the idea to Colin last night, and he was really pleased. We may start something! Ours may be a little less formal, (Australians are like that), but the concept looks perfect, and I think a certain formality adds to the sense of occasion. I'm onto it!
Val, did I post that comment after I posted on your later one about the smiley? Sorry - I'm all over the place at the moment. I had to go back and check it though when you mentioned chicken-scrubbing; I had no memory of that at all! Now chicken SEXING, and its subsequent retraction, that I did remember, and it all made sense. Unfortunately now, thanks to you, I have this persistent image of a little toothless and wizened old lady (heaven knows why) sitting on a three legged stool working her way through a pile of chickens with a bucket of soapy water and a wire brush. Nothing wrong with me.
Oh, and are you serious about "oodtgate"? It sounds very rude indeed. Glad I asked!
Ooops, it was SEXING, you're right! Still, I love the image it evoked....and as for oodtgate, all I can say is ;-)
Neans - I've never had any doubt about your sense of humour!
Margie,
Gr8 post! ;)
As someone who has on occasion been in trouble for writing things (and saying them), I try to assume that others are intending the best and don't immediately jump to negative conclusions.
I don't mind the smileys and tongue stick-outs- they belong with this form of communication, which is different from standard writing in many ways and has its own rules.
Well said margie..its so easy to mis-read a comment in some circumstances..but i never feel that way with my bloggy friends because we seem to have an unsaid understanding of humour and know when to be serious too if need be..
its amazing how a text msg can be mis-understood too if one words missing..example..my friend text ..
"Ive been dumped, cheated on, and fucked around so many times..
thing is the word 'been' didn't show up! , so it took on a whole new meaning making her look bad..lol..
Ho hi, I've been reading some of the comments here, and I love the responses you've been getting. I vow I shall never truncate, abbreviate or emoticate (?) anything ever on your blog again.....c u b4 lng xxx ;-)
Hi Margie, thanks for coming by. Good to see ya, hope all is well this weekend.
xx
Hi Margie
Thanks so much for picking up on my latest WW post. I have spent so much time editing and pruning it that I've been taken by surprise by all the comments...I hadn't noticed them!
It's funny because I write it all up first in Word, and read it, correct it and edit it before I transfer it to my blog. Then when I read it again on my blog, I always find other things that need correcting. Then Koos reads it, and he always finds things too, so then finally I print it out and find MORE corrections to make when I read it from paper. Seems I can never get it right the first time! Still, it keeps me on my punctuated toes xxx
Vally - you mean I've printed and read a DODGY version!? I shall complain you know ...
oooh Nooooo, I'm safe as long as it isn't the Dinglish version!
>.^^.<
~ meeow!...
Gypsy! I LOVE your kitty symbol..purrrrfect ;-)
Nice kitty Gypsy! Is this the modern equuivalent of writing "Shelloil" upside down on your calculator? Who invents these things?
Must rouse self to post something new. Alas, no time now, as domestic bliss beckons. Well, the need to invent something for dinner, anyway ... such is life. (Ned Kelly said that I believe, but as he was about to be hanged at the time rather than rustle up a salad and a bowl of pasta, it was a little more pithy coming from him.)
Margie, there's no peace for the wicked. You have some more reading to do! I've been scribbling again...... ;-)
margie..i have my video up!!..
Val - Yummo! Off to visit now. Gyps - I know, cos I saw it last night and nearly choked on my tea. Left a massage for you over on yours.
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